Leading Emergency Management the PJ Way

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Joseph Bernard:                Really what the Department of Commerce has done and said, hey, you guys got developed FirstNet, and so there’s this FirstNet capacity yet it’s going to happen. That’s almost a 5G for the government.

Todd DeVoe:      Hi, welcome to EM Weekly, your emergency management podcast. And this is your host Todd DeVoe speaking. This week we are talking to Air Force Lieutenant Colonel retired Joseph Bernard. Joe rose from the ranks of the enlisted ranks in the army to commanding a pararescue program in the Air Force called PJ’s. Joe And I are discussing leadership in emergency management using some of the principles of what the PJ’s use. And I think the insights that Joe brings are amazing and it’s going to change your paradigm on what leadership is.

Todd DeVoe:      Now onto the interview,

Todd DeVoe:      I want to welcome Joe Bernard to EM Weekly, and this is kind of exciting conversation we are going to have, and so Joe has an extensive background in the military and kind of what he’s doing here today in a civilian world. So what Joe, welcome.

Joseph Bernard:                Appreciate it, buddy.

Todd DeVoe:      So Joe, tell me a little, it’s a little bit about yourself and how You got to where you are today.

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah, so I’m a 54 year old guy who’s running a wireless construction company. But as 18, I joined the army, I was in the 82nd airborne for several years, both station, state side and over in Vicenza Italy. Then I got out and was a lifeguard and south Florida, for a while and beaches and parks, and I was sitting in a tower with a guy, and he’s like, hey man, have you ever heard about Air Force? Pararescue it’s a cool job. Get to jump out of planes and shoot guns and you know, be a highly qualified medic and that I’m like, oh, that sounds good to me. So, I joined that no 88′ and then I was a PJ all the way through till 2001, and I got commissioned as a combat rescue officer. It was a new career field. The Air Force started to put officers in charge of Pararescue man because the helicopters will get too complex and helicopter pilots remain were in charge at that time. And, and our mission set was getting complex. And so then I was a combat rescue officer all the way up to 2016 and retired. And now I’m starting; my second life is a capitalist. So, nothing really bad to say about my career. A lot of things to say about it, but nothing really bad. Just things to learn from it.

Todd DeVoe:      So some of the lessons that you learned along the way, well, first of all, thank you for your service. So, so things you learned along the way, how do they parlay into emergency management style of managing an event?

Joseph Bernard:                Well, you know, the biggest thing is preparation is key. You trained the way you fight. And so credibility comes from when you prove stuff out in training. So when the crisis does happen, decision makers are confident that, these guys can handle that. They’ve trained to it, they’ve done it. We’ve done a ton of FTX field training exercises. We’ve done a bunch of CPX command posts, exercises. Sometimes they’re together. I think CPX is good when you’re developing your script and your plans, and you get a tabletop almost like a script read like Hollywood does and, and people understand what their jobs are and what you’re supposed to both to do. And then you could hot wash or after action those things and go, hey man, you, you’re falling short on this. This is your timeline, the suspense and gets this back up. And then you go out, and sort of FTX what to sort of CPX develops another good training aspect of what we did.

Joseph Bernard:                We did, we used to do part task training versus full mission profile. Parkash training may be just the jump portion of a full mission profile. So we would jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, get good at jumping and then we could add that to the formation profile where we jumped. We have a land movement; we have patient, we have, some sort of contact with the enemy. Then we would have some sort of movement again and extraction and you know, definitive medical treatment on the way back. So all those can be separate part task trainers that you put together. So if you just tried to do full mission profiles the whole time or FTX is, and you don’t do a CPX or a park test training, then you’re sort of not getting, that advanced skill level that you need and all those different parts and it, and it’s way more manageable to cause these crises are big nasty animals is all your community knows. And so the only way to handle a big nasty animal is to compartmentalize it out and just sort of deliberately and methodically, calmly solve the problems as they come up.

Todd DeVoe:      One of the things I sometimes noticed when we do training here, a countywide training to large scale trends like this, especially if they’re full functional exercises, is that the field guys, number one feel it’s a waste of their time because they don’t really, and so I think it’s our fault and on design of the exercise, but they don’t feel that they’re getting anything. And I remembered a few years ago; we’re having a single, the golden guardian exercise, which happened here. We did an Anaheim where I’m a terrorist event happened. They blow up, a train as part of the exercise. And so we had all of these assets sitting in the parking lot over Anaheim stadium where the angels play Baseball and

Todd DeVoe:      the majority of the coppers were just sitting in, in their car waiting to do something and then they get to drive around a little bit. And then they went home. I was talking to the guys, I said, this is the biggest waste of our time. We did absolutely nothing. I, they got paid overtime, you know, so I guess it wasn’t that big of a complaint, but they were still just saying, it’s a waste of our time. Why do we do these things? How can we take using like the military model I can, we take some of those concepts and put them in here to the civilian model, into the responders. I’m doing good quality training for them.

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah. So our FTX is evolved, a planning lifecycle. And so, there’ll be several planning sessions throughout the year if you have an annual exercise. The key players have got to be there nine months out when that planning session going on. And then you know you have to have a proper white cell that oversees the exercise. It keeps the exercise going. And so you know you’ve got red, blue and green forces, but that white cells sort of controls and so you don’t want anything to stagnate. And so really it comes down to the planning cycle and the competency of the people running those meetings. Like these meetings shouldn’t be boondoggles. They should be serious stuff. There should be time on target. Here we are, we’re starting at this time. This is the agenda. What we’re going through, this is what we’re handling. These are the key players what we’re, and this is a problem that we’re presenting.

Joseph Bernard:                This is how we think they should solve it. Several courses of actions associated with that. We have a military decision making process, which has a significant mission analysis horse and associated with that MDMP that sort of structures us and sort of how we do this. So, you know, you got to take this stuff seriously. So, shame on the sort of who planned those cops, the sort of be there that sort of had them sitting around because you really don’t want anybody sitting around. Everybody should get something out of the exercise now. Then also I’ll say shame on those cops individually for saying, okay, man they did not plan it, right? You could do two things. You sit around and bitch or you could sit around and get the most out of it, type of training that you’re doing. And so just like negative atmospheres is contagious. So, it was a positive atmosphere that you sort of get out and go and do that stuff.

Joseph Bernard:                So, you know, you got to hold yourself individually accountable to make sure that this stuff goes on, and then you bear to show up to that after action and go a, B, c, and d, this is who, what, where, when, why this could have been done better and that after action, then there’s got to be a follow-up in the next planning cycle of everything that went wrong. So the next exercise is better. It’s, you know, it’s complex stuff, man. You know, once a big dynamic happens to people’s lives, active shooter, some sort of natural disaster or whatever it may be, man, people’s worlds are rocked. And so this community is set up to un-rock those people’s worlds where, you know, there’s not supposed to be no delay or man, I can’t believe this happened or any of that. You’re supposed to know what to do and sort of go into it. So, the system must be accountable, and the individuals must be accountable.

Todd DeVoe:      One of the things I noticed too, when we do after action reports, especially after training, it’s a lot of people sitting around pat each other on the back saying how great of a job we did. And there’s not a lot of negative stuff being said. When I say negative, I want to talk about nitpicking and things, talking about critical thinking of what’s going on specifically with that event, how can we do things better. Um, and we don’t get a lot of that. And you know, one time I wrote her an after action report, went in and had recommendations on how to fix things and I was told to take it out because they were like, hey, we can’t put this in there because if it’s in there, we have to, I have to fix it. I’m like, that’s, that’s the whole purpose of this thing. but sometimes the brass doesn’t want to hear that. what could we do, do you think, to make our after action meetings more productive and to really pull out those things that we need to change.

Joseph Bernard:                You know, if you want to grow, you only grow from what you did wrong, honestly, not from what you did. Right. When, when I was a pararescue trainee back in the late eighties, the instructors would say, we’re going to critique the 8% you guys did wrong, not the 92% you did. Right. And if you guys have an issue with that, this isn’t the job for you because there is a ton of stuff you guys got to know and you guys must know it already — advanced level. And the only way to understand that is this constant debrief. Fighter pilots sort of do the same thing. You know, people can go on YouTube and watch a debrief from the blue angels or the Thunderbirds, and they don’t sit there and talk about how great the crowd over Fort Lauderdale was and help turquoise the water. They talk about, man, you are two feet off here, and you should have been two knots faster.

Joseph Bernard:                And what happened there? What were you thinking? And that’s how you grow. And so if the culture of an organization, municipality, whatever, is not that we’re not growing from this and we need to know what’s going on wrong, then you know, uh, not next thing you know, you’re just going to have powder puff atmosphere that is not going to solve anything with these crisis’s. You know, the FD, uh, the PD, you know, those are all series gigs and how they morph together and a complexity of the communications and where they stop and start and, and is, who’s doing what with supporting agencies. You have got to talk about all that stuff, and you must call it out now. You know, you’re not a D.I.C.K. As you’re calling it out, you know, you got to be proper about how you call that stuff out. compassion and accountability or an opposing. But if you just have one or the other, then you don’t have the full picture.

Todd DeVoe:      Yeah, that’s so true. It’s so true. And there’s, you’re absolutely right there. There are certain nuances and how to get the information across to people, how to make positive changes without coming across as being that. We go through some training exercises, you know, and then we’re looking at two to make some changes now for us in the civilian side of the world, you know, bringing things to our city councils or to the city manager. So it’s the mayors or whatever your reporting structure is. We must do a good job of, of selling, if you will, cost benefit analysis if you will. How, how do we present this information that we find say to the upper echelon of command to be able to get the support and the money that we need to make things work properly?

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah, you got to build wins, and those winds come through training. I mean, you know, pararescue had to do it in Vietnam as we were rescuing downed pilots. We had to do it humanitarian until nine 11 happened. And then we had to do it as we picked up, you know, marines and army guys, the heinousness of IEDs blowing people up and all that stuff. So you just sort of build on wins and you always sort of grow. So all those operations I just talked about, we had, you know, a hundred times more training events part task trainers and full mission profile. CPX is an FTX is both with us in the joint world with other services and our coalition partners; you just build these wins. It’s no different for a municipality, whether it’s in Iowa or South Florida, you’re building wins. There’s a reason why FEMA now select certain teams, you know, to go out and sort of do national stuff for them because they built lens locally on how they responded.

Joseph Bernard:                Like, you know, I was stationed at the homestead for Andrew, nasty, nasty storm and Miami Metro Dade handled it right. They’re affected FD and PD. They didn’t work. They got sent home, they had a memorandum of understanding and agreement, and support from Tampa and Jacksonville and Atlanta and Air Force flew life light for Metro Dade while their helicopters were down, and we had joint or a partner paramedic on from all over that. And the guys were going and putting blue roofs on their houses and stuff like that. And then a couple of weeks later, and then they came back to work. And so you got to have that proper planning. And so, especially the politician’s man or under, you know, it’s easy to kick a politician and, and some of them should be kicked, but they need to have confidence that one, the first thing that’s going through your head and when something happens is holy shit that I caused that.

Speaker 1:           What did I do? What policy? What didn’t I fund? What didn’t I short? Because there’s going to be other people on the opposite side are going to say you should have funded this. You should’ve done that. So they’re already coming from a negative atmosphere. So when you walk up and present to them, you got to go hey, this is how we’re going to get it back on track is what we’re going to do. This is the timeline; this is suspense. You know, they need confident people in front of them that sort of have it laid out and then they’re going to be a lot easier to go. Yeah man, go do that. Keep me updated. Um, you know, and then the command and control aspect of these things once all these command and control center stand up. Like we have air operation centers, we have tactical operation centers, in the military and the changeover, briefings got to be proper.

Joseph Bernard:                And each cell that’s in there has got to have an immersion briefing, and they got to be constantly, be working their top two issues, top three issues, and have a clear chart up there of where it’s at, when they’re going to be fixed, who’s working it, why aren’t they working it? How did it go bad? How do you readjust fire? So, you got it, you know, time is money when it comes to these things, and you got to be succinct. So, all those things together, that’s how you build confidence for folks just coming in because the cream is absolutely going to rise to the top and then you can’t worry about what other people are doing. You got to if you’re assigned, you know, I’m assigned to get water or water filters, you better be the best Dang war guy or water filter guide and not worry about the food ration guy. Do you know what I mean? So, that, that’s probably my best advice. And then little victories during the day, lead to good victories during the week. Next thing you know you’ve got good months in, a good year happens, and that training cycle leads to how you respond to when a crisis happens.

Todd DeVoe:      Kelly McKinney, one of the guys who’s who I’ve interviewed in the past and is an author of a book that he was an emergency manager for, New York City for a little bit. Kind of give you this background. So Kelly McKinney, he made a good point. He was talking about briefing the mayor of New York, and the mayor of New York expected that things were being done. Oh, we’re putting fires out, we’re doing this, we’re doing that, we’re doing this. What he was looking for at the time was what wasn’t being done or what needed to be done that like that would, that they’re behind the eight balls on. And I think that’s one of the things that we have to do as emergency managers. Just have a really good understanding situation report, you know, if there’s a little wildfire going on, the elected officials, no, that we’re putting water on the fire, you know what I mean?

Todd DeVoe:      But you know, there are things that we’re doing that we’re behind on such as evacuations maybe or shelters or things like this, and they need to know what we’re behind on because you’re right, they’re the ones that are going to be facing the news media. They’re the ones that I can, at the end of the day, you’re going to be facing the scrutiny, and potentially it could be losing their job over, over mismanagement of that event. So I think we do have to give them a little bit of slack when we’d go in to give a briefing. But I think we must have a good situation report and understanding where we stand and not be afraid to tell them, hey, we’re doing well here. Right? But we’re not going to talk about what we’re doing good at. This is where we need to help. And I think that’s actually going to help, the residents that were supporting during those events. What do you think about that?

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah, I totally agree. And the caveat I would add to that summit when I was a para rescue man and before I sort of got to be in the officer in that sort of senior ranking guy, what always struck me was the guys would go, what, what do you need help with? And then at the end, they would say and don’t slack up on what you’re doing. Good. They’re like, keep that up and let us know what resources you need to keep doing good. But so not only do you have to keep your foundation strength strong and continually do that, but you got to progress the other stuff that’s sold out there. But it goes back to what we were talking about earlier about highlight and bad stuff versus just, you know, the fluff man, that’s a culture. You would hope that that politician, director, VP, COO, CEO, whoever it is going, hey,

Joseph Bernard:                I need, you know, you know, Rome wasn’t built in a day, man. You know, I mean this takes a while to sort of getting to this. I mean, you can’t be sitting in Des Moines, Iowa going, I want to be up to L.A. County speeds, you know, next month. You know, it’s just not going to happen. But you can pick some stuff set at 24 months out on the Verizon as a carrot and then you could back planet thing going; this is what we need to do. Here is what we need to do this quarter is what we need that quarter. And next thing you know, 24 months down the road, you’re going to reach what you need to do.

Joseph Bernard:                Some people plan for the wrong stuff. One of the things we should do in the military is, you know, you’ve got your most dangerous situation. You’re most likely, you know, when you’re in, you really got to plan for your most likely, you know, like everybody needs a plan for an active shooter of mass shooters. Unfortunately. But you know, there’s a lot of people that don’t need to plan for hurricanes. You know, south Florida doesn’t really need to plan for tornadoes like Oklahoma does, you know? And so, you got to make sure people aren’t running with scissors and just planning on what they think is chic. The collective communities got to come together and go, Yep, this is, this is a priority one is a priority to this priority three, and this is how we’re going to allocate our time resources to it.

Todd DeVoe:      Well it’s like the matrix that we use, right? High probability, low probability, high impact, low impact, you know, so what you really want to plan for as your high probability at high impact situations?

Todd DeVoe:      Even with an active shooter, I mean realistically we, we, we planned for it especially at the school districts and whatnot. Areas where we have large populations of people, we plan for the active shooter. But if you take a look at the statistics of the probability isn’t, isn’t that high, but if something does happen to impact is extraordinary. Right? So that’s why you still planned for, for that because of the high impact, which take a look at like say, you know, a large scale tsunami hitting the west coast, you know, the probability is low, and the impact is realistically so sorry for the people who live on the coast, but the overall general population, the impact is moderate, right? We’re going to have some serious damage to the coast where people that lose homes and stuff like that, if you have that large scale tsunami, but realistically two miles, three miles in inland, there’s really no direct impact, right?

Todd DeVoe:      If you’re a coastal community, it’s a completely different story. Right? But, but so yeah, you take a look at those things. I think it’s important and that’s how you, how you do your training matrix associated with that as well. So that, that, that makes 100% sense. You know, so, right. We should not be training for the large snow event here in southern California. And I don’t think New York has to worry too much about the large scale earthquake, you know?

Todd DeVoe:      Today you guys are working on some kind of cool stuff actually with the construction of the communication networks, right?

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah, yeah. It’s a cool little company. We touch about 19 states right now in the southeast. All the states that touched Georgia and all the states that touch, touch those states. But our customer, we’re a B to B business, our customers, Verizon, T-Mobile and a little bit of AT&T. And we have three divisions. We have a wireless construction division, we have a retail construction division, and we have a maintenance division. We maintain HVAC and generators where we keep those hubs at the base of the towers going in the wireless construction division. That’s the biggest excitement because everybody’s transitioning from 4G to 5G and that includes these little small cells are going to be out there.

Joseph Bernard:                And so the wireless infrastructure, really cellular data is becoming the fourth utility. You know, you can’t do without power, and you can’t do without water. You can’t do without somebody removing your trash. We’ll try doing without, you know, your cell phone right now. And so the capacity demand is just going through the roof. And then in fact that it’s, it’s, it’s not scaring folks, but it’s like, Whoa, how are we going to handle all this? And so things are going to fiber optic. You know, if you think about the speed of light versus coaxial, you know, white versus RF spectrum, how much data it can handle, how fast it can go and what you can process their retweak in all the radios and Nokia, Panasonic and Motorola’s for the emergency. And I always forget the last one. Nokia, Panasonic, and are sorry, I think that the last month, but Erickson Erickson’s it.

Joseph Bernard:                And so they’re building all these small cell radios that are going to be about every 250 meters and put up. So really the Internet of things, autonomous autonomy, all that stuff that everybody’s promoting you see on TV. Until that skeleton of the 5G network is there to handle all that stuff, that stuff’s not coming. So, we’re one of many companies in the U.S. That is contracted by Verizon and T-Mobile and AT&T and Sprint to put this stuff in. And it’s, it’s pretty cool what we’re doing. Specifically our company, we have a great business development guy named Phil who has got with Verizon and gotten access to military basis. So military bases have been a black hole for signals. And what the sillier companies have done with these big macro towers is called surround and pound. They buy private property outside the basis, steer their antennas store, turn off the signal and try to try to capture those cell phones that are looking for a signal inside the base.

Joseph Bernard:                Well, in the military it’s become a detriment to the operational mission. They have bought an electronic checklist that doesn’t work on a flight line. Um, uh, the command post for the security forces or military police on a basis when the run an exercise or an actual live event of an active shooter and they blast out a text message, only a third or a fifth of those go out because how bad the capacity is on the base to handle all that. So now that all these small cells are coming in, we must gain base access, and our guys have cracked the code on now putting all these things on the basis. So those large military installations, there’s 200 of them across the U.S. can have the same capacity as off base does.

Todd DeVoe:      Let’s talk about the 5G g network for just for a couple of seconds here. So, I keep hearing about 5G I know L.A. City has some areas, and they’re using some, I think their public safety and public works have 5G capable tools. How big of a game changer is 5G going to be for public safety?

Joseph Bernard:                Well, you know, if you look at all the after action reports and there’s true after action reports of all these different stuff, the communication was way down. And so really what the Department of Commerce has done and said, hey, you guys got developed a FirstNet, and so there’s this FirstNet capacity yet it’s going to come to happen. That’s almost a 5G for the government. So we’re not laying the government on the same civilian network that’s out there. Now they can sort of crossover and sort of support each other, which is good. But, so they’re addressing two different issues.

Joseph Bernard:                5G is just is 1 through 4G combined, to be honest with you, all the guts of the macro towers have to be changed out all the radios, all the antennas. It’s just all new technology that is happening. And then all these little small cells are going to help with the latency of the signals that are out there. So it’s just, it’s just sort of faster, faster data. And so, you know, faster is better. You don’t like seeing that little spin deal happen. I think the biggest thing for the government and EM is that FirstNet that’s happening in the Department of Commerce is overseeing that. there are some great videos on YouTube that the FCC chairman has talked about where, you know, urban areas that don’t have, you know, there’s more cell phones and landlines now, but get cell phones don’t work.

Joseph Bernard:                And so we’re having people that are having strokes and heart attacks and injuries that in the past used to survive that have passed away because of how long it took EMS to get there. so, I think there, you know, from a government standpoint of what we’re seeing, and we have a couple of lobbyists groups in DC, that feed us information, and we paid a sort of feed the community information on a business that we’re trying to do. There’s good, progress associated with this. This is probably something that both parties can agree on that, you know, phones are important, and utilities are important and as sort of a foundation, you know, it’s at the bottom of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Now,

Todd DeVoe:      One of the things with cell specifically compared to landline is that with a landline for Reverse 911 I hate the use that term. I should say mass notification , we could actually get the data from AT&T or Verizon, or whoever else is here. they my carrier in the area, put them in the system and we can push notification to your landlines. However, the way the, and if I think it’s currently the same way and if I’m wrong, please somebody chime in and correct me. That we can’t do the same with cell phones, that would be the cell phone. We must have an opt in for your mass notification systems, and that has been causing some issues. And you take a look at what happened with like could Butte county, where the Paradise, where the Camp Fire was with the, with some of the communication issues that were up there. did UC Davis had an issue where they pushed out 70,000 messages in like 20,000 got through. You know, there’s all these issues associated with the mass notification systems. And I think a lot of it has to do with going back to number one, the speed of the cell towers and number two people not understanding how important it is to opt in to get these messages. Again. What can we do to partner with the carrier groups, to ensure that we have better mass notification to our cell phone carriers?

Joseph Bernard:                I think it’s just about communication. I would invite them to the debrief after these things happen carriers have what they call COWs cell on wheels. So if, if a big storm took their network down, they would put these cows out there to sort of handle the capacity. well really what you’re talking about bounces in between privacy issues and sort of, you know, general public knowledge and need and care. And so, you know, there’s a lot of people out there who don’t trust the government in different aspects of doing stuff. And so if they’re savvy and know how to use her phone and they don’t want mass communications, that sort of That type of deal. I, you know, that’s, as far as the details and the engineering of sort of how it works and the capacity, I’m really all I know is what they’re battling is latency and latency is just slow speed.

Joseph Bernard:                And so they’re just trying to speed up. The more, the faster things go and get out of the network, out, you know, out of the pipe, the more stuff you could put in there. And so the more people you can notify, so from a strategic level, that’s really what they’re trying to handle right there. The privacy issue is always going to be, you know, the Google, the Google CEO was briefing Congress, and that’s a neat YouTube video that people should look at. And you know, one, there’s, we got these old archaic people that are used not even to send an email when they turn 50, you know, just like our grandparents are, and they’re asking this guy some incompetent questions. And then two, he’s given some detailed answers trying to be kind to them, and they weren’t grasping it. So, I think as generations age, and we become more tech savvy and more than I think it will all wash out, to be honest with you. You know, I’m a, I’m a pretty optimistic dude and all this stuff we’ll, we’ll sort of wash out in it. It’s up to grand kids and kids and sort of look out for the grandparents if they’re not tech savvy. And I think we’re already doing that.

Speaker 2:           Yeah, we are. It’s funny you say that. A couple of years ago I bought myself, my mother in law an apple phone. iPhone. Okay. And she, she hated it. She couldn’t stand it. She didn’t know how to work. It, couldn’t figure it out. All right. And then, my daughter who was little, she, she can figure out how to do all this stuff, and she took her, I’m, and now this is the way you must do it. So I ended up having to go back and buy my mother-in-law flip phone this year for Christmas because she was not happy with the iPhone. But yeah, no, I think you’re right. I think once we have generations understanding how to use it, like I said, my, my daughter, she’s grown up, she understands how to use technology like crazy and I think it’s just going to be, they’re going to rule the world at this point. Would that

Joseph Bernard:                I have to do to that generation though is we have to love them through it. We don’t criticize him. Go, Man; you’re archaic. You know you’re, even though I just used the word archaic earlier, we kindness and love in a joking jokingly like I got an aunt every time I talked to her, she thinks we must get off the phone quick cause it costs me money to call her. I paid for my dad’s cell phone bill. I don’t want to use up all your data I’m like, Dad, I pay for unlimited data. Surf the web all you want, whoever you want, you know. But there’s still, so you just love him through it. Man, you know, if you got to say it to them 8,700 times, it is what it is. And, and you know, you just don’t because we are going so fast in life and all that slowing down and breathing in crisis situations at the beat, you know, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Right. All those things are great, great mantras for life man. You know, they really are.

Todd DeVoe:      Yeah, they really are. And so, with the new, 5G and what you guys are doing with the cell towers and stuff like this, now I’m, I’ve been reading some things, and I know that the driverless cars want to rely upon that network. is this something that we’re going to see, you know, become more commercially viable the next eight, 10 15 years? Or are we still far off on using those technologies?

Joseph Bernard:                You know, it’s, it’s tough to say because we’re at the beginning of putting in small cell network and the carriers want it in like yesterday. And so as tower guys who used to just work on the big macro towers, as we get better and better putting into small cells, you’ve got to have fiber there, you’ve got to have power there, you got to have a pole, you got to test it, you’ve got turnover, there’s engineering associated with the rating in the poll. There’s some real estate that’s got to go along the easement of all these municipalities and how that happens. It’s a; it’s sort of an eight-milestone process that they evaluate us on. But as, as the teams get better and putting these things in, then you know, like that’s the skeleton for whatever is going to be hung on there. And so, you know, I like, I’m a fan of Tesla, I’m a fan of space X.

Joseph Bernard:                I’m a fan of all the stuff that Detroit’s doing and the big, you know, there’s a ton of different companies out there. I just don’t want to focus in on Musk and what he’s doing. But I believe in what these guys are doing. And if you give them the right, you know, it’s just almost like building a train before the train tracks, you know, where’s it going to go. So once you get that train track out there and is 5G network is going to be a viable train track for all that IOT and autonomous and autonomy. Um, it’s almost like a DAS system in a building. Like if you had robotics and Amazon, Amazon has robots and going to have a DAS system of distributed antenna system that is controlling all the signals of all that stuff. Well, we’re talking about putting in a DAS system across the United States, just not in a building.

Joseph Bernard:                And so it’s just exponentially more complex to do that on a larger scale. But, but it’s, it’s going down what we’re having. So, it’s, it’s going to be eight to 10 years unless we really get efficient at sticking those small cells up and turn them on and having them communicate with each other. Right now, the slowdown is Erickson, Panasonic, Nokia; they’re behind a little bit on building all the radios that are needed. And so, once the carriers get those radios, and they give them the companies like ours and install these things, they’re going to start going across the U.S. we are going to have, it’s funny, we, we’ve seen videos on people like, I need a better signal. I need a better signal. When you hang a small sale outside your house or like take that thing down. It’s an eyesore, you know? So there’s a little bit of, of, you know, people like, man, you know, careful what you wish for.

Todd DeVoe:      It’s kind of funny. Oh Man. Okay. So we’re cutting here to the end. Um, real quick, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, how can they find you?

Joseph Bernard:                Yeah, man, I’m not on any social media, but LinkedIn, but I communicate with people on LinkedIn all the time. So more than happy to [search] Joseph Barnard and that’s about it. I really don’t have anything going on except for my work, and I like helping people. There’s any, no, I stay close to veterans and military issues — my wife and I, 28-year marriage. Unfortunately divorce rates fairly high in the military and, and that’s something we’re very passionate about. She’s a yoga instructor, so I recommend highly that people marry a yoga instructor. If you man, we want to have a good life, Mary Yoga instructor. So she’s a winner. And one of the things we love doing is sort of helping young people just sort of getting through all the trials, and you know, I had a bunch of deployments, a lot of time away and she had to handle a lot of stuff that I should have been there to handle and then sort of shows how we got through that without tension towards each other and things of that nature. That’s sort of what we’re passionate about and what we’ll try to do moving forward after we make some money here.

Todd DeVoe:      Well, congratulations on 28 years that is great, especially in the military marriage, you know, that’s for those of us that were in the military, it’s a hard life for, for the, for the spouses. So

Joseph Bernard:                They sacrificed more than, you know, it’s almost like people out there think about if they’d have no associates with the military whatsoever. Think about watching your kids do something, and you’re more worried about your kids, and you are yourself. So the military members, you know, you know this Todd, you’re deploying, your spouse was back there worrying more than what you were when you were out doing whatever you were doing. When I was outside the wire doing my stuff, I wasn’t worried about myself, you know, but they’re back there just sort of worrying and, and it takes a special person to support a military member for sure.

Todd DeVoe:      Yeah. Every odd ring of the phone in the middle of the night it gets their heart rate up, or any knock on the door when they’re not expecting somebody gets their heart racing. So, all right, well the last question is the toughest question I should say. What book, books or publication do you recommend to somebody in the field of emergency management?

Joseph Bernard:                So I read so much for work that I am not a leisure reader at all. So what I have gotten into his podcasts, I think Joe Rogan has an amazing podcast. I think Andy stumps a former Navy SEaL. If you’re a young guy and you don’t listen to Andy Stumps cleared hot, you’re wrong. For business I listened to a 16 Z, they’re a venture capital firm out of Silicon Valley. Andreessen Horowitz. That’s why it’s a 16 Z. they have tons of different podcasts on business information, startups, you know, all the aspects of PnL’s, AP, Ar, you know, HR, logistics, all the stuff that’s sort of how businesses need to run.

Joseph Bernard:                So, I’m just a podcast feen, to be honest with you. And so I don’t, if I do read something for leisure, it’s like a Hemingway. It’s sort of like just an old, just an escape because I read so much for work on technical stuff, so sorry to cop out on you there. But hopefully, I provided good, good avenue out.

Todd DeVoe:      No Man, that’s, that’s perfect. So the publication, that’s the way I look at it. So anything that’s going to help people move forward and learn about what’s going on in the world? I think it’s supporting. So if you could talk to all the emergency managers in the world at one time, what would you tell them?

Joseph Bernard:                I would just tell him to be ready and to be ready. You know, it’s coming. Whether you don’t know it’s going to happen. So, you just got to plan methodically. You got a plan, you’ve got to build that skeleton that you can flex off of, and you got to exercise. And I would say if there’s somebody coming in late or something like that, don’t get frustrated with them. Just get them up to speed and a calm, deliberate manner. Because you don’t, there’s enough tension from these events already. You don’t want to add to that tension. Um, and then specifically I would say have four complete parts to yourself. You got to have the proper effect. You got to have the proper cognitive smartness of what you’re doing. You got to have the proper health, and you’ve got to have the proper practice. And probably the only thing we didn’t touch on in this thing, it’s health. But health is so important. You don’t work out for yourself. You worked out so you can support others and make good decisions and all that type of stuff. So it’s, it’s way beyond fitness. And so you’ve got to have those four corners of clarity in order to have a good center moving forward.

Todd:           That’s so true. I just, uh, after being off the bandwagon for a little bit because of an injury, a, I’m getting back into working out and doing that. I feel so much better about myself in the morning and, and, uh, being able to spend more time and energy with my kids. And that’s the important part right there. I am getting back to my fighting shape as a, as I say. All right. Well, Joe, thank you so much for being here. I’m looking forward to, to still stay connected with you and maybe sometime we’ll have you on again.

Joseph Bernard:           Yeah, man. Todd, anytime you need anything, please let me know. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to your audience.


LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephbarnard/

Email: Joe.bd.33@gmail.com


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