EOC Work Flow with Jim Bailey

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[TODD] Hey, and welcome to EM Weekly, and today is a great day, we have a special guest, his name is Jim Bailey, and we’re gonna let him tell us a little bit about himself right now. So Jim, go ahead and tell us about yourself.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, so I’m Jim Bailey, I’m a managing partner with SenseMakers, LLC., I’ve been a consultant now for 16 years; I retired 10 days before 9/11 from the United States Marine, where I was an Intelligence Officer, when I retired at both enlisted and officer time. And my path, you know, post 9/11 was pretty clear. I wanted to take the talents and experience that I had and qualify it towards kind of terrorism. I was working for a company called EGG Technical Services and they were standing up their homeland security practice, and I was one of the original members of that. And it was really interesting, because it was kind of like building and airplanes were flying through the airs, so homeland security was standing up with a bunch of different programs, and just that time I worked with a lot of planning, training and exercise projects, literally all over the country, primarily working with public safety personnel, emergency management, public health, transportation. The company I work for right now, SenseMakers, LLC., I’m a managing partner there, we’re a service disabled veteran owned small business, specializing in professional services consulting, services focused on fighting, training, and exercising. Again, working with public safety and emergency management.

[TODD] I wanna talk to you a little bit today about consulting specifically. So, if someone was an EM, they’re either beginning their career, or maybe they’re even ending their career and looking to do something different; cause a lot of the people that are listening to this podcast, obviously, are my students at the two universities where I teach. So, if someone is thinking about going into consulting, what are the steps that they should take, or what do you suggest?

[JIM BAILEY] Well, I think there’s two paths, Todd, that someone… again, let’s kind of go back to someone who’s looking to start into homeland security/emergency management career. You can go sort of the public side and try and get a position within a city or a county emergency management agency, or you can go into, I think, the consulting world, which is kind of what I did when I first started in the private sector. There’s kind of advantages and disadvantages to both; I think, an advantage of going private sector first is that I think you’re gonna be a “Jack of all trades”, because you’re gonna be focused on a number of different projects, you’ll be involved with a number of different clients, and you’ll get a chance to really learn the trade by learning with a variety of different clients. Whereas, I think, if you start out on the public side within an emergency management agency, you might have an experience where I’m working a specific project, or I’m a project manager for a specific project, or I’m just working within my jurisdiction, so I don’t necessarily get exposed to a lot of different things. So, the obvious nice part about the public side is job security, relatively speaking, again there’s challenges associated with that, but I think less challenges on that side than opposed to the private sector. The private sector, it is a business, and it is all about billable hours, and you know, taking care of the clients that you have and finding new clients to work with as well.

[TODD] That leads me to my next question. So, I know one of the biggest challenges in emergency management is the budget. You know, we’re always trying to have the budget. So, how do you propose, and how do you guys get money for your projects? I guess it would be through the bid process, but do you guys work with city, and states, and counties that are having budget issues that maybe will bring you guys in because of that?

[JIM BAILEY] Oh, yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean, it’s a double edge sword, I mean, life before 2011 was really different. I mean, we had more work… I mean, I started out working at my house as kind of a one-man shop in 2002, and come 2005, we opened a full-time office in San Diego, and by 2007 I had three offices and 25 people working for me in two different states. So, the homeland security moneys were flushed back in the 2000’s. 2011, it started to change. Obviously, we went through the great recession, and a lot of cities and counties were downsized, so yeah, we did see un uptake in our business, because there just wasn’t a lot of people to do the work that needed to be done in the public sector. But after 2011, you know, we started to see a draw down in the grant moneys, there’s less UACE cities, I think even the funding from DHS is declined… so, we’ve seen some changes, there’s some challenges. You don’t see the big dollar programs anymore, at the state or local level, or at least I haven’t seen it. You see a lot of one-off X number of dollars for a tabletop, or X number of dollars for a full scale, but you don’t see the big programs, the several hundred thousand dollar programs to do a series of exercises.

[TODD] Right.

[JIM BAILEY] Or training deliveries. So, it’s changed, post 2011, and we’ve had to change along with it as well.

[TODD] It changed everywhere, it seems to be… when you do go… I wonder if we’re gonna see a… kind of going back to the traditional emergency management model, now that we have the storms that just hit the Southeast, and of course, it starts to hit here in California, and then… you know, with all those, with the rains and the dams and stuff like that, I wonder if we’re gonna go back in the infrastructure and mitigation, and that type of stuff that’s gonna be a focus.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, I think… you know, I think emergency management today is challenged in a number of different areas. I just went to the San Diego County unified disaster council, and it started out with a briefing from the LECC, the fusion center in San Diego, talking about the latest tactics that they see in their monthly publications, if you can believe they actually have a monthly publication. You know? And then, I transitioned sort of into the real-world storm-related recovery storm update from what’s coming this weekend, what we can expect, and then from there they transitioned into the complex coordinated attack grant program, and it was this really… you know, I sat there and I listened to the topics that they were bringing up, and I thought to myself: “my goodness!”, you know? It’s not your old emergency management anymore, there’s a lot of things to focus on, and I think you kind of get spread in a number of different areas.

[TODD] It’s funny because even the program that I teach at Coastline Community College, we are an emergency management/homeland security program…


[TODD] And it seems like there’s an excess into both, you know, and I see that for sure, and it makes sense, but it seems, like I said, we kind of… at one point, when we had UACE money flowing, it almost seemed like I was a homeland security guy more than an emergency management guy, and when the storms come up, then it’s like: oh! Then you’re back in doing the traditional emergency management… you know, trying to save the flood waters from going into people’s homes.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, absolutely. I think you have to focus on both. You can’t afford to be a specialist in one area over another. You’ve gotta be more of a generalist, you know, kind of the all hazards type of individual, you know, in protection and prevention, mitigation, response, recovery. I mean, you’ve gotta be able to cycle through all of that for basically all threats.

[TODD] I think that’s the other thing too, I see the threat analysis, hazard analysis, being a huge part of what we do now in EM more than the responses side of it.

[JIM BAILEY] Sure. Absolutely, absolutely.

[TODD] So earlier, before we started doing the official recording here, we started talking about workflow, and I was telling you that one of the things that I’m really working on right now is using technology to improve the workflow in the EOC, and I know you said you were working on some of that kind of stuff. Can you kinda tell me what work you’re doing with workflow?

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, absolutely. So, we see there’s basically three key areas within EOC operations that we think that if we can improve these three, we can drastically improve the overall effectiveness of the EOC. And those three areas that we focus on are: communications, information management, and workflow. On the workflow side, what we see is, within a lot of EOCs is, a lot of emergency managers… again, this isn’t a condemnation of emergency managers, that I think it’s just a natural sort of temptation that if I just buy web EOC it’s gonna solve my workflow problems, ok? And in fact, I would even hazard it to guess that perhaps maybe even those folks selling different technologies might maybe even sort of provey that… you know, put forth that their system is going to solve a number of workflow problems. But the reality of it is that… what we preach is that the first thing you gotta do is, you gotta sit down and you gotta hammer out your information requirements. We call it the five-layer approach: hammer out your information requirements, identify where you get that information, and then identify what you do with that information. In other words, who’s gonna do the analysis? You know, do you have one or two people sitting that are going to “do the analysis” on everything that comes in? Cause if you do, I think you kind of set yourself up. So, the analysis is the third step. The fourth step is, who do I have to share this finished information, who am I gonna share that information with? Who are my stakeholders? How am I going to create, no kidding, the common operating picture? What are those components, you know? We like to preach… and then again, I think people kind of come back to the common operating picture, they think it’s some sort of computer display on a screen. Well, certainly it can be that; but there’s also the conference call, it’s also the briefing, it’s also the rep that comes out every couple of hours, or whatever the time frame is. It’s all of those things, you know? And what we find is that folks don’t necessarily know, you know? How to access, what… you know, what’s out there and how to access it. So, we stress that you’ve got to identify that stuff upfront. And then, finally, once you’ve worked through those four levels, then, and only then, do you bring in technology. Because we believe, and I’ve seen it, again, for 16 years, if you don’t go through those four steps and develop your workflow and how that’s going to occur before bringing in technology, and you bring in technology upfront without doing those four steps, they just… it’s just chaos. Because it’s a hazard-based problem, honestly. And I can give you a number of different examples, I mean, we’ve worked with clients where I’m in an exercise environment, and I see someone frivolously typing away on a computer, and I ask them: “what are you entering in web EOC?”, “well, I’m entering everything in the web EOC”, “why are you entering everything in the web EOC?”, “because I was told to enter everything”. Right? And then fast-forward to the hot wash of that exercise, and you’ve got the leader that says that she couldn’t pull the sit rep in a timely manner, because she had to wave through a mountain of noise information that had no value that was entered into web EOC. Had to go through a mountain of noise to pull out the nuggets that she needed; and had those nuggets been identified upfront, again, with your information requirements and where you’re getting it, and the indicators associated with is, she wouldn’t have had to go through that. So, that’s part of what we’ve done. I guess the other thing, if you don’t mind me kind of continuing on that…

[TODD] Please, do.

[JIM BAILEY] The other thing that we’ve done is, when I look at EOCs, most emergency management agencies have an emergency operations plan, ok? And then they have EOC position checklist. Ok, now, those EOC position checklist I kinda like into… sort of being the individual parts of a car. So, imagine you had a car that was broken down into its individual pieces, in a giant gymnasium. And you had never seen a car fully assembled, right? And I like that the position checklist is those individual parts of the car. So, we walk around and there’s a carburetor, and this is a tire, and this is a steering wheel, and this is a fender, you know? And when you’re done, you know what those individual pieces are, but you don’t necessarily know what it looks like when it’s all put together! And that’s… the EOC doesn’t address that. And a checklist doesn’t necessarily… so, you’ve got something missing in the middle. And the middle is basically what I call the glue, and the glue is the coordination process. How do we get from EOC activation to turnover or demobilization? What are we doing during that 12-hour operation period? What we’ve done, we built out an EOC coordination playbook that breaks the planning… everybody’s got their own version of PFC, some people are using the field-based, some people have modified it to EOC operations, but we’ve built basically a four-phased framework, that you can overlay on any planning, regardless of the individual steps. And what we’ve done, is we’ve taken 10 or 11 steps in our planning, and we’ve broken it down in four phases. And the four phases are: direction, coordination, planning, and transition. Ok? Think of it kind of like as the four quarters of a football game. That’s a little easier to get your mind around than the 11 steps, you know? Everybody has a copy of the planning in their EOC, but how many people have really broken that down, like: here is what we do in this particular step, or here is what we do… in our case, in this particular phase. So, the direction phase is all focused on, as you’re moving up… again, you’ve activated, people have shown up, ok? Now what are we gonna do? It’s all about just gaining and maintaining situation awareness. What do we got out there? Let’s figure out what we’ve got, let’s develop some course of action, you know, let’s… either if we don’t have standing objectives, let’s develop some objectives; let’s get working! Right? That’s essentially the direction phase. The coordination phase, ok, now we’ve been working at this thing, we’re getting more information, we have a better understanding of what’s happening out there, what we’re doing about it, but are we achieving our measures of effectiveness? So, are we doing the right things? And are we achieving our measures of effectiveness? That’s the coordination phase, so that’s focused on current operations. Planning, as you know, that’s building your EOC action plan. So, you’re focused on “what do we think it’s going to be happening in the next 12 hours?”, right? We kind of put out our crystal ball, we just have a different orientation, whereas the coordination phase was focused on current operations, the planning phase in building that EOC coordination plan is more focused on what we think we’re going to be doing in the next 12 hours. So, from a situation standpoint, what’s happening with our threat? Is it getting worse? Is it getting better? Is it staying the same? What do we think it’s gonna be like, for instance, in the next 12 hours? Triage: if your EOC is activated, it’s because you’ve got a complex operational environment underway, and a complex operational environment… you know, you’re gonna have not just one problem, you’re gonna have a whole host of problems. How do you reckon that, in terms of who is gonna get resources, you know, where are you paying attention, where are you collecting information? So, the triage piece is important too; what’s that gonna look like in the next 12 hours? Operations: what’s the operational footprint. Is it expanding, is it contracting, is it staying the same? Logistics: what resources are we likely to need in the next 12 hours? Public information: what will we be telling the public, what do we need to tell the public in the next 12 hours? So, you kinda work, and then transition is all about the handoff. You know, how many times have we heard about folks that don’t necessarily… you know, your relief shows up. You shove some papers in their face and out the door you go. We kind of preached that there should be some structure to that transition phase, a briefing should be developed, that briefing should be delivered to the outcoming EOC staff, and then before departing there’s individual turnovers to go on as well. So, we’ve built out a playbook that basically takes you from activation through deactivation, or to turnover, and what each section, branch, and unit does during the direction phase, the coordination phase, the planning phase, and the transition phase. Right down to the transition level.

[TODD] That’s awesome.

[JIM BAILEY] And you wanna talk about coordinative workflow, imagine everybody in the EOC online: “hey folks, we’re in the direction phase. Here are our assignments, here is what you contribute to the meeting that basically anchors the direction phase”. Some people call it the crisis action meeting, there’s a whole host of names for it, but there’s a meeting that basically concludes each phase, ok? The coordination meeting is the meeting that concludes the coordination phase; so, everybody in the EOC knows where they are, right? They know what phase they’re in, and they know what they contribute, because they’ve got the EOC playbook there, that basically says, “here is what I need to be providing to my branch coordinator or my section coordinator, as they prepare to go into that crisis action”.

[TODD] You know, that’s kind of what I was alluding to before, I’m looking at non-traditional, not like a web EOC type-thing, but more like a project management workflow. One of the things I’m kind of playing with is this software, it’s fairly new, it’s called FreedCamp, it’s an online program, it’s kind of sticky notes, if you will, and you tell people what to do, and they let you know when they’re done. That’s just something I’m playing with, but workflow is the key to everything, I agree with you there. It’s funny, we talked about the coordination aspect of it, and I was talking to Eric Holdman, from Emergency Management Magazine, and he was saying… and he’s been around in this job for 100 years, or whatever. Sorry, Eric. It’s… but he was telling me that he likes using the term… sort of the EOC and ECC, in emergency coordination center. And I’m kinda going with that, and that is so true, because as emergency managers working in the field, this is more of a coordination…

[JIM BAILEY] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[TODD] as the operational aspect of it, so… what we’ve seen here is some really good stuff.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, so the EOC doesn’t command or control anything.

[TODD] Right.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, yeah, they coordinate resources, they coordinate information. So yeah, I’m gonna agree, I think… you know, I think if we can get enough people on board I think changing from an EOC to an ECC could have some positive effects.

[TODD] Oh, yeah. It’s kind of one of those things, that when he told me that, I was talking to him last week, and I was like… that kind of popped into my head and I’m like: you know, I’m gonna start feeding that to my students, you know, maybe when they move out… as they… as these old guys move into their retirement phases these guys can kind of change the world a little bit. That’s some good stuff.


[TODD] Ok, so… I do have a couple more questions here for you.


[TODD] And one, I’m gonna let you do the shameless plug, if you will. So, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you, how would they do so?

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, so we’ve got a website, we’ve redone our website, that will be coming online here… I think we’ve got the near final version coming up next Wednesday, so I would say within two weeks… today is the 16th of February, I would say we’ll have our website up. It’s www.sensemakersllc.com. And that has all of our contact info, and everything, that we’ve offered and the services that we provide.

[TODD] That’s awesome. And just… and for full disclosure, you know, I’ve worked with Jim in a few projects when I was up in Orange County, and always a professional and always a good guy to go to, so I’ll endorse you form there.

[JIM BAILEY] I appreciate that.

[TODD] No problem. Ok, and this is the toughest question of the night.


[TODD] And you can have a couple of seconds to think about this, but what is the number one book that you’d give you a new person breaking into the business?

[JIM BAILEY] You know, that is a hard one, because I’m a pretty avid reader. I can tell you a book that I’m reading right now.

[TODD] Yeah,

[JIM BAILEY] It’s called “The Obstacle is The Way”. I think that would be a great book for a person to read, for a number of different reasons. One, it helps, I think, sort of shape your perception at how you look at obstacles, and how you have to be adroit to solve problems and turn the obstacle into an advantage. I think that’s a tremendous book, that would be good. The other book, I think you can find it actually in Amazon, in terms of customer service, which again, is very important, “Marriott’s Way”. If you’ve ever stayed at the Marriott, and I’m a platinum Marriott member. I’ve just always admired their process, and they obviously have a process, and their customer service, I think, it’s pretty stellar. And if you read that book, I think you come away with a better understanding of what it means to serve others, and again, I think within emergency management what’s what we’re all about, service. And I think that would be a god ok to read… I’m trying to think if there would be… I think those two books. I think those two books… if a person were to start there, I think they would be in a good stand. A third book that I would throw out, “The Checklist Manifesto”, I think that’s a good book, talking about the importance of checklists, again, I kinda… you know, talk about how there needs to be something more than checklist in the emergency operations plan, some kind of glue that pulls the process together. But nonetheless, checklists are important, and the author spends a great deal of time talking about the importance of checklist and how to create meaningful checklists. Those three books.

[TODD] That’s awesome. And the checklist thing, I agree with you there. You know, I have a really, pretty sensitive checklist system, you know, for the guy who walks in, he had… he pretty much could hand anybody my section sheet for section position checklist, and he’ll be able to get up on it and running, as far as what to go through, but yeah you’re right, there is more than just that to the EOC, that’s just a starting point. I’ve seen people who have thought that was the end all be all, I have my checklist and I’m ready to go, and it sounds like an air force pilot, I’m just ready to go right after the checklist.

[JIM BAILEY] Oh yeah. We have a force called situational awareness for operation on the EOCs, and before we even do introductions, we get the students in their seats, and before we do introductions, we show them a videoclip of the opening scene from Gladiator. With Russel Crowe. I don’t know if you’ve seen that movie, or if you remember that movie, but basically what you have, is you have two armies facing each other in battle, you have the Romans in one side, and you have the Germanic Barbarian horde on the other side. And we ask the students to watch the clip and to observe how each side approaches the battle. Because we think it’s a metaphor for emergency management. Ok? On the Romans’ side, you have command, you have control, you have resources, logistics, obviously, people are training. They’ve got a process, they’ve got a plan. On the Barbarian side, they just have a lot of folks, and clubs, and they’re just gonna run front-on into the romans and try and overwhelm them that way, they don’t really have a lot of command and control, or logistics, or anything like that. And we see… at times, we see EOCs that operate that way. You know? When a crisis happens, they come together, they don’t necessarily have a whole lot of process, but they just run head on into a problem, and eventually they solve it. But our question is, which do you wanna be more like? Again, it’s not being Romans, but having a way, having a process, defining the how you’re going to get from point A to point B. Can you call an audible? Yeah, if things are flexible, if things change out there in the field, you know, in a complex operation environment, you bet! But if you’ve got a roadmap… or if you’ve got a playbook, you can call an audible from that playbook. But you gotta have something to start with. So…

[TODD] Right. That’s so true. Man, I could talk to you all evening about this, but I don’t wanna take too much of your time. So Jim, thank you so much for being here tonight, I know we’re getting to go into… for those of you guys listening, this might be a little further down the line, but this is February 16th, and we have a huge storm coming and hitting us in the next 12 hours or so.

[JIM BAILEY] That’s right.

[TODD] Yeah, so we’re gonna prepare for that. So Jim, thank you so much for taking time to talk about the processes, that’s one of the areas that I really do enjoy, I like the process. I think it’s why I do what I do for a living.

[JIM BAILEY] Absolutely, absolutely.

[TODD] All right, sir. And again, everybody, thank you for listening to EM Weekly, and again, this was your guest Jim Bailey with your host Todd DeVoe, and we talked a lot about workflow in the EOC, workflow in emergency management, and how if you’re interested in becoming a consultant, how you can take the steps to get there. And again, thank you for joining us at EM Weekly. I brought a bunch back…

[JIM BAILEY] Oh did you, really?

[TODD] Yeah.


[TODD] Yeah, a couple of 50 Cal that didn’t go off that were rusted off, so there’s still pieces. There’s still weapons that are still rusted and sitting on the ground. I’m trying to think of how… I mean, I was there, this was… 95, right?

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, it would have been 95, I think. 94, 95, yeah.

[TODD] Yeah, and so… I have pictures of that too, there’s a weapon just sitting there… I don’t know what caliber, I think it was Japanese, but it’s all rusted out, just sitting there.


[TODD] Some of the bigger guns that they had, that were like, in the boxes on the beach, were still there. Those were all rusted out as well, you know. And they were sitting in the peel box, looking at the ocean, going… wow! They were just looking at those ships, just sitting off the side, watching these guys coming. No wonder why they tear people up, you know?

[JIM BAILEY] Oh yeah.

[TODD] You know, we got to watch…

[JIM BAILEY] But imagine getting hammered with 16-inch guns, firing 200 pound projectiles.

[TODD] What they did is they just dig holes, right?

[JIM BAILEY] Oh yeah, yeah.

[TODD] So they had the Koreans over there, right? And they had a bunch of Korean slaves, and so they dug these tunnel systems, the Koreans did, and the odd part about it was… at the beginning, when the marines landed, some of the Koreans tried to surrender, but our guys had no clue what they were, if they were Japanese or Korean. So, they’re just like: you’re just done. So the poor Koreans were like… well, we don’t know who the hell you are, we’re just gonna smoke you. And so, yeah, a bunch of poor Koreans got kind of caught up. Some of them picked their guns and some didn’t, you know, so that was that for them. And then, the general’s wife, I forget his name now. The general who died on the island, his wife was actually there, giving a speech. I actually have the entire thing on a tape, somewhere.


[TODD] I’m gonna get that converted.

[JIM BAILEY] That would be super cool if you could do that, I mean, I would love to see something like that. What a treat man, what a treat.

[TODD] It was awesome. Yeah, I bet… I had a really, really lucky career, where I got to go and got to see… you know, so… yeah. I got to go all over the Middle East, I got to play in the sandbox for a little bit, you know?


[TODD] Even the shitty places I went too, we were outside of Somalia when they did the landing over there, and we took casualties back to our ship when we were the 30… 32nd or 33rd…

[JIM BAILEY] I think it was 31st.

[TODD] 31st yeah. We were over there, and they were like: hey, you guys need to pack your bags and report down to Hanson, and you guys are gonna get on a bus. And we’re like: what? Next thing you know, we’re on a boat, and we’re like: what boat is this? And they’re like: oh, you’re in a German town! Cause they thought they were gonna… so that was funny. We were with those guys for 60 days, you know?

[JIM BAILEY] Wow, wow.

[TODD] Then, they brought us back and dropped us off.

[JIM BAILEY] Camp Schwab, that was my first duty station. TFC Bailey reported for duty in Camo Schwab. 1982 to 1983.

[TODD] Oh yeah, Camp Schwab. It’s funny, a friend of mine just went back, he’s now a… he’s picking up the tele commander now, and he went back to do some work. He was there for two weeks of work and he took a two weeks leave, and he was kind of driving around. And he went to Schwab, and he put pictures. I’ll see if I can forward this to you, he put pictures up on Facebook.

[JIM BAILEY] Oh, really?

[TODD] Some of it is the same, some of it has changed, you know?

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, see if you… or if you’ve got the guy’s name I can try and friend him so I can see. I would love to share those. I have a really good friend of mine who… again, we were both 18 years old, and junior enlisted, and spend about a year over there, and I know he would just die to see what Schwab looks like nowadays.

[TODD] Let me see if I can put you on… you know what I’ll do? I’ll do it this way. I’m gonna message Robert. Let’s see if I can get this running. Yeah, it’s funny cause Robert, he worked in the pharmacy when I was over there. And he was such a small dude, he still is a small guy, and like, all of a suddenly all of us guys got over there, and we were all like, big freaking reckon wannabes, and we’re like: “destroy everything!”, you know? Robert would go out with us, you know, he was like: what did I get myself into with these guys?

[JIM BAILEY] Exactly. In fact, I had Yakissoba the other day, I was having lunch with my wife and I ordered yakissoba, and I said: I wonder if it’s gonna be as good as the yakissoba they served… I wanna say it was the USO… was there a USO there on Camp Schwab?

[TODD] Not when I was there.

[JIM BAILEY] I’m trying to think if it was the USO… it wasn’t the it club…

[TODD] They had the bowling alley.

[JIM BAILEY] No, I don’t think it was the bowling alley. I can’t remember, but nonetheless man, I ate that shit freaking every day. It was delicious, and then I started to see how expensive it was, and went back to eating in the hall.

[TODD] I went: Robert, this is Jim Bailey, friend of…

[JIM BAILEY] That would be cool.

[TODD] You should do it, he’s a good guy.

[JIM BAILEY] Yeah, that’s cool. Well, thanks for sharing all of the… I almost enjoyed the post-interview as much as I did the interview.

[TODD] Well, I gotta get back to the family and whatnot, so thanks again for all this, and I’ll clean this up a bit and I’ll send you a copy of it.

[JIM BAILEY] That sounds great, thanks Todd.

[TODD] All right.

[JIM BAILEY] All right, take care.



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