Brock Long: Answering the Challenges that Face FEMA

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Episode 96, Brock Long: Answering the Challenges that Face FEMA

Hi and welcome to 2019 and the EM Weekly show this your host, Todd DeVoe speaking and can you believe that this is going to be our third year of bringing quality content and information and interviews to the EM Weekly listener and if you’re just joining us now for the first time or are a fairly new to a weekly thank you for, for being here as well. And I’d love to have you go back and take a look at some of our older episodes and just to kind of see and catch up with, uh, who we brought onto the show and a 2018 was a great year and 2019 is looking to be a and even more exciting a year coming up and especially with some of the interviews that we have and especially today with the fact that we have Administrator Long from FEMA here with us and we’re going to be getting into some of the conversations with him.

Brock Long has had his hands full these last few years, a couple of years, I guess. And, uh, you know, with all the storms and fires and whatnot that have been happening here in the United States and our territories over to over the last couple of years since Administrator Long has taken office and that’s been challenging for sure for him and one of the issues that I’ve seen come across the emergency management space, some of the conversations that he’s had in front of Congress and I want to say some of the blame faced on are placed on the Administrator or FEMA for that matter, for, for lack of response I think is misplaced. And you know, it’s, it goes like this. It’s our plans and our exercises. Our responses are people on the ground and we have to take as emergency managers in that area, we have to take responsibility and blame when things do go sideways.

As much as I love the people from FEMA and what they do. And I have some great friends that work in that organization. They are not the knights on the white horse to come riding in and to save every jurisdiction or during a disaster. In the planning phase of emergency management, we do work really well with FEMA in the recovery phase of emergency management. We have to work really well with FEMA. Right? Those things are really important, but it’s not all about them coming in and taking over. And I think it’s a misnomer that the public has about what FEMA is. I know that there’s a few congressmen in Washington that politically I think is what it is more than anything else because they just don’t like the president are taking Administrator Long to task. But my view on the Administrator has been doing well and his ideas I think have been pretty open about this as I think they’re pretty strong. And I really am excited about some of the professionalism that he wants to bring to the field of emergency management.

Just this week there was a press release from a California city and they’re talking about in a great way how they promoted or given a lieutenant detective from the Police Department that the position of emergency manager for the city. And it looks like that’s probably where a emergency management sits in that city is inside the police department and I handed it over to this person who is a decorated patrol officer who was the lieutenant over the Communications Department or section the detectives and the Lieutenant Cracked Cases and brought people to jail that in a timely manner and it was such a great way and very intelligent person. And I don’t take anything away from this person because I’m sure this lieutenant is a wonderful police officer, a wonderful detective and is doing all these things. What’s missing in their bio. Nothing to do with emergency management. They didn’t go to school for emergency management. They didn’t respond to, at least on this bio that we’re reading to any major incidents but didn’t go to any large scale disasters. You know my friends, this is the issue that we’re having here. If we want to professionalize our emergency management, we can’t celebrate giving the position of emergency manager to somebody who is not qualified to sit in that seat.

We need to move away from lights and sirens. We need to move emergency management up, you know, and that’s the issues that we’re having here. Well, let me get off my soapbox here. Now let’s get to the interview.

Well, I am super excited to have a female administrator here again for the second time and hopefully we can make this a yearly event. So administrative long. Welcome to weekly.

Brock Long:        Glad to be here again. How you doing?

Todd DeVoe:      I’m doing great. Well wow. You come in to the uh, to the job and all of a sudden, we have a bunch of hurricanes and so trial by rain I suppose, and wind and now this year with the California on fire and then the hurricanes. Again, you’ve really been tested here at your office. How are things going for you

Brock Long:        To put the past two years into perspective is very hard to do, but the sheer magnitude of what we’ve been through in 2017 and 2018 since I came on board is going to force us to totally rethink the business enterprise here at FEMA, but also it should challenge the entire field of emergency management on the way things need to work going forward. And again, the numbers are staggering. So we’ve done some initial analysis that based on the 2017 / 18 calendar year, the amount of money that we’re going to put out in public assistance as a result of these past two years is the same as what the agency has done and it’s 38 years of entire history combined. Literally we have packed 38 years of assistance into 16 months since I’ve been on them.

Todd DeVoe:      Wow. That’s amazing.

Brock Long:        And it’s forcing us to rethink, rethink everything. You know, at the end of the day, I don’t think a bigger FEMA is what we need. We need a stronger whole community and I don’t just throw that term around. I think we have to be deliberate on how we move forward and change the audience of the whole community and asked people to be prepared, but you know it’s going to take all of us coming in together. It’s going to take a state legislators and local elected officials bolstering their emergency management agencies and the budget, so in their capability, their workforce capability and it’s got to be more than just depending on female

Todd DeVoe:      As we look at some of the communities that we have lost over the last couple of years, Santa Rosa Fire we had a whole community that was lost up there and then obviously with Camp Fire with Paradise burning, 65 percent of the residents or buildings over there and then of course Mexico beach, Florida, where that entire town was destroyed and we’re seeing like a lot of impact on the insurance companies because of that. And I know that in Paradise of the insurance company that was hosting most of the homes up there and went insolvent. So we have some serious conversations that we have to have. Not with just the emergency management community, but like you said, with our partners in insurance as well. How can we start that conversation with those community partners?

Brock Long:        Well, as I keep saying the key to disaster resiliency is not a bigger FEMA, it is stronger building codes, land use planning and zoning at the local level, but until we start electing local officials based on that, you know, we’re going to keep this vicious cycle going. You know, the big thing that occurred, uh, that most of the industry it really didn’t pay attention to was the transformational changes of the disaster recovery reform act that just went into place. I mean, I testified 12 times last year, I believe, 12 times last year, 14 times now since being in office on the need to do a pre disaster mitigation up front and the congress proactively put the law in place to do that. So what’s great about coming forward into the new year and what state and local emergency managers need to understand is how to start budgeting for the changes in the DRRA.

Brock Long:        So, what the law says is that if I, you know, six percent of all the funding, no matter what we spend in recovery, any given year, six percent of all the recovery dollars that we spend, will now be put up front and pre-disaster mitigation. So that law had gone into place last year. It wouldn’t be the equivalent of two to two and a half billion dollars out there for infrastructure mitigation measures, the following year. So this laws in place and what we got to do is educate our state and local elected officials that a massive amount of pre disaster mitigation funding is about to hit the street next year. Are you ready to, you know, offset the match and what is your comprehensive strategy moving forward to bolster the infrastructure to make sure it doesn’t go down and we don’t lose lives as a result. And we’re less impacted in the future.

Todd DeVoe:      Like Say New York City or Los Angeles city type of place can really benefit from those, those monies and they probably a little bit more, a bigger ability to spend money to be able to get that money. But how do we take a look at small towns, you know, say like a town and say 25,000. How do we help them get that funding?

Brock Long:        Well, first of all, I think the biggest part of the problem is, is of, you know, you have so much turnover in the elected official arena. Uh, you know, we’ve got a handful of new governors coming in. Have they ever been educated on the type of money that’s out there so that when they go into the budget making process, are you aware of what’s available? And I’m not so sure that we’ve done a great job of understanding the amount of money that’s out there. Todd In this country right now. There, there’s $8,000,000,000 of post disaster HMGP funding sitting on the table waiting to be used. Is that FEMA’s problem or is it an education problem? Is it a match problem? But I would be willing to bet that a lot of communities have no idea that there’s that much money sitting there waiting to be used for mitigation purposes as a result of going through a lot of disasters because we haven’t educated those who have been newly elected and put into office.

Todd DeVoe:      I think that it is a multi-pronged problem we have here, not just the education of our elected officials, but the fact that with our industry, we have a lot of “emergency managers”, that are collateral duty. They’re just, they’re going through checking off boxes to make sure that that’s done, but they really aren’t educating themselves on how to really navigate some of those political and also financial mazes that are out there. And again, going, go back to education. I suppose, where do we start? Do we start with educating the emergency manager or do we start with educating the elected official or city administrators? Where do you think the first step would be to be able to get people to understand what’s out there?

Brock Long:        Well, look, I love emergency management, man. I love going out and talking to emergency managers and understanding, you know, the great work that they’re doing and the challenges that they face, but I’m also ready to change the audience. I think every emergency manager at all levels needs to change the audience and who they work with on a day to day basis on blue sky days. So for example, we’ve made a deliberate initiative to start reaching out to the realtors of the nation, the financial advisors of the nation, state and local legislators that are out there rather than going to emergency management conferences per se.

So, think about it Todd, there is a realtor in every community across the United States, they have one of the most powerful lobbies. You know, 1.2 million realtors are a part of the national realtor association in this country. How do we turn them into our sensors, into our, our advocates to, to understand the importance of community mitigation, you know, going forward and we have to correct some bad behaviors. And, and you know, for example, why are realtor saying, Hey, this house doesn’t, isn’t required for flood insurance. That’s a good thing. Well, no, wrong. That’s wrong. We need to rethink that. You know, quite honestly, FEMA only, you know, maps the special flood hazard area. We don’t map all possible flooding hazards that are prevalent in a community. Any house can flood, you know, get insurance. Teaching the financial advisors at the NFIP is a very lucrative program. You want to be insured since any house can flood, so stop talking people out of insurance, protect the greatest assets that you have. We got to change the audience like that to also start putting influence on the local elected officials of saying, hey, we really need to grab some of that mitigation money that’s out there. The nations never had a better opportunity to. Now to mitigate with all the funding that’s coming down the pipe on the pre disaster side, we just have to get the word out, look at other special interest groups and audiences to help bolster a support for the local emergency manager because they just one small voice in the community.

Todd DeVoe:      One of the things that we have been taking about lately is the idea of the resilience community and we’ve been working hard. I know that the Rockefeller Foundation has put a lot of money into resilience cities or they wanted to do 100 resilient cities and what’s that mean? The conversation is going on and so here in the county that I live in we’ve been having this conversation as well about what does it look like to be a resilient community and you’re. You’re right on the money right there, Brock, because what we did is really reaching out to a real estate agents because they do have the pulse of their, they call them the farms. If you have the pulse of their community because they farm certain areas and they know what it’s like, who’s coming in, what’s the economics of that area and how they can impact and hand handout things to the community members and I think it’s a really important idea to bring people like that into the fold. How else can we develop a really strong, resilient community?

Brock Long:        All right, This is a great question Todd. This is twofold in my opinion. First you got to start with an educated prepared citizenry. The biggest problem staring FEMA in the face is the problem of asset poverty, and I think I’ve said this before on your own, maybe I said it the last time on the podcast, not poverty as in I don’t make enough money to make ends meet. I make a good salary, I spend more than I make, and therefore what’s happening is we got get that corrected because people do not have their own rainy-day funds. What you see in the California wildfires for example, is you see senior citizens struggling in retirement, so what they’ve done and somebody probably taught them to do this, is once you pay off your mortgage, let your fire insurance. Well, when those types of behaviors start to occur in increasing manner across this country, it becomes FEMA’s problem.

Brock Long:        So we see this trend of individual assistance skyrocketing, not necessarily because of the number of events, but more because of the social vulnerability around financial resiliency. So, what we’ve got on our website now and, excuse me, is a financial preparedness tool kit on the things you need to consider. We’ve got to get financial advisors to stop talking people out of not being properly insured and insuring their businesses or their assets. So it starts there, but then I think a lot about this on the physical mitigation side. So another concept that we’ve been pushing out and you’re going to see a lot more is the construct of community lifelines. Okay. We learned in 2017 that we are not doing a great job of unity of effort when it comes to response stabilization phase as well as how we’re going to push through an outcome driven recovery.

Brock Long:        And so what we’ve done internally is we’ve identified seven community lifeline areas and basically a lifeline is a sector that provides indispensable service to a community and when they go down life safety is in jeopardy or life routine is has been disrupted and we’ve got to concentrate on getting these seven lifelines backup to overcome the disaster. So 1) is safety and security 2) is food, water, shelter, 3) is health and medical 4)is energy and fuel. 5)is communications, 6) is transportation. And then the final one is 7) hazardous waste and materials. And what we’re looking at is if any one of those is down, as I said earlier, than lives are being lost or the routine of life cannot be restored until those seven lifelines or backup. So how do we get all of our ESFs focusing on getting those community lifelines back up and running and going from red status to green status?

Brock Long:        Okay, that’s the response phase. But what if we, and these are the seven things that plague emergency managers in every disaster, in my opinion. So what if we also start to craft our mitigation community mitigation strategies around those seven lifelines to make sure that we don’t lose the health and medical capability to make sure that we don’t lose the communications backbone to make sure that we don’t lose the transportation networks. And we really start focusing all the mitigation on those seven lifelines. And so, you can actually go on our website on FEMA dot Gov to also look at, uh, an FAQ, frequently asked questions about community lifelines. And that’s the direction that we’re going to start going and asking. We’re going to start asking emergency managers to reconfigure their event management software and they’re webEOCs and that kind of thing to start collecting information along those Community Life Lines and pushing it up so that FEMA can better serve a state and local government with overcoming response and recovery during disasters.

Todd DeVoe:      You know, it’s interesting when I went to the IAEM conference in grand rapids and we had a good conversation and the presentation from FEMA regarding the lifelines and what that really means and I think this is something that has an emergency manager that we should embrace and, and really it’s a good starting point and I think that when you talked to your community members, it makes sense to them. This is really broken down to where they understand that if these things do fail, it’s going to be a hard time to recover. I mean, for instance, in California, we talked about the San Andreas fault Dr Lucy Jones goes over the fact that we’re going to be without water for six months and when we, when she says without water for six months, she’s talking about all water. Not just drinking water, hygiene, water, firefighting water. Any kind of be cut off, so we really have to look at mitigating that concern specifically with the earthquake and I know that this is the issues that we have, you know, uh, back east when I grew up back there that during the snowstorms being cut off from the community, for a week or two and understanding those concerns that you have to have and that’s why, you know, we would always make sure that during the wintertime that we had plenty of food and water and milk and whatnot are ready to go.

Todd DeVoe:      So I think going back to the basics, that really makes a lot of sense to me. So that being said, how are we as Emergency managers, how are we getting this word out? I mean, I know we were hearing from FEMA today. What if you went to the conference, you heard it there. Are we doing a good job as emergency managers sharing this information with each other?

Brock Long:        That is a great question Todd. In this job I am learning every day, just because we’re talking about community lifelines in certain segments within, FEMA the messages not necessarily resonating down through the agency. And we have our own struggles of educating a 21,000 member workforce on why we’re going to community lifelines, why we’re going to FEMA integration teams in these concepts, and we’re having to refocus that and streamline how we stay in front of our employees everyday of saying, here is why this is necessary and what we’re doing to solve these problems. And you know, I’m always worried that, uh, information is not getting out into the profession of emergency management and I’ll use the DRRA, the disaster recovery reform act as an example, when this was being initially brought forward by Congress, quite frankly, and I hate to say it, the emergency management community was asleep at the wheel and had no idea that this transformational act was being considered by Congress. And quite frankly, I don’t think a lot of the emergency management community is aware that it passed.

Brock Long:        And what the ramifications are. Did you know, for example Todd, as a result of the DRRA, the management cost provisions have increased tremendously, which allows, you know, state and local government and increase their ability from 3.34% management cost to 7% to the state level 5% to the local level that allows you for smaller disasters to go out and hire, prevent contractors to help you with staff augmentation or technical assistance, higher force account labor, the management costs for the post disaster mitigation funding went to 15 percent respectively, which is a tremendous amount of money to allow communities to bring in the assets to get this stuff done and it’s bolstered our army. But I would argue that a lot of people in the profession, I have no idea that this has been passed.

Todd DeVoe:      Well. Again, it goes back two issues I think associated with it. As an emergency manager, you really engage in your community. When I talk about your community, talking about those emergency managers that are closer to jurisdiction and having professional organizations, you know, kind of like the California State Emergency Management Association or in Orange County we have OCEMO, which is a bunch of emergency managers a month. You meet together, talk about things that are going on and it doesn’t have to be a physical location. I mean you all can do webinars and things like this. They really understand what’s going on out there, but it takes effort, you know, um, I teach emergency management at a community college and now I’m at UCI and those were things I stress to my students is making sure that you grow your network and continuously converse with people about emergency management in the profession across the board. And this is why. And why EM Weekly exists, you know, this is why we started this podcast is to be able to share this information with the emergency managers across the board. So you’re right, Brock, we need to really do a better job as EMs to educate ourselves and keep educating ourselves. And I think, I think going through organizations like with FEMA, with EMI, I think that’s a really good avenue as well. Now I know you guys have a podcast as well. Can you talk a little bit about that real quick?

Brock Long:        Oddly enough, I did another podcast this morning. We’re trying to look at every avenue to amplify information and put it out there. And so we started our own podcast that we started to push out and make sure to say, here’s why we’re doing the things that we’re doing. And here’s why we have to change as a result of the last two years. So by all means, uh, we asked people to go and download the podcast that we’re putting out an amplified as much as possible. We’re trying to create the conversations. The other thing that we’ve been doing is PrepTalks that the office of resilience has been a leading and bringing in thought leadership into emergency management to start discussing, hey, what is the emergency manager, the emergency manager 2.0 look, like? You know Todd, here again, lights and sirens and incident command will always be part of emergency management DNA. But the fact of the matter is we now going into the new year and need to focus on other things such as billion dollar financial disaster recovery, disaster cost recovery is one of the weakest links inside the emergency management community that we’ve got to put a focus on.

Brock Long:        And what I mean by that is, you know, if you look at last year, supplemental funding in 2017, $118,000,000,000 in supplemental funding was provided to the emergency management community. It put money in 20 different federal government agencies to fund over 90 different recovery programs. Okay. Wrap your head around that. Todd, is your community’s recovery plan remotely indicative of handling that type of money coming from that many different agencies and how do you make it all work together to do the greatest good and become more resilient? And we’ve got to start getting the emergency manager 2.0 to look like a financial disaster recovery expert in their communities, and bolstering their presence in their communities by saying, Hey, one day we could come into hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars as a result of going through this. Here’s our strategy to make sure we do it right.

Todd DeVoe:      And again, it goes back to what I’ve been saying for the last couple of years here, is that we need to professionalize the role of the emergency manager and, and take them out of that response agencies where right now a lot of places are sitting in fire. They’re sitting in a police departments where they need to actually be a third service. But that’s just me on my soapbox you do not have to agree with me or not, but I think that we need to have a more professional emergency manager out there that we have today.

Brock Long:        I totally agree with you dot. I think it’s time to graduate a little bit from the lights and sirens, stereotype in emergency management exist within and we’ve got to go out and show our local elected officials the value that we can potentially put forward. I mean, look, let’s face it, hurricanes, floods and wildfires will make or break political careers. Something that really needs to know where the emergency manager can, can empower themselves within their communities.

Todd DeVoe:      Sonoma county went and hired a professional emergency manager announced that this week who it is and the guy who got the job has been in the emergency profession for a long time and so I’m glad that he’s up there doing it and I think you’re going to see the same issue with a Butte county in California where the sheriff’s department is the EM. They don’t have a professional emergency manager up there right now and you can see how that impacted that fire response. Again, I’m on my soapbox a little bit. I think there’s more people out here listening to us, probably agree then not, but just kind of wanted to point that out one more time. So Brock what do you see coming for this year coming up? What’s, what’s the forecast for FEMA and what are you guys doing?

Brock Long:        Hopefully we have a year where we can catch our breath. You know, right now about 80 percent of our deployable assets are out in the field and the average deployment for a FEMA person out in the field was a 136 days this past year. We cannot continue to keep up this pace that we’re pushing forward and it’s forcing us to rethink the business enterprise. And so how are we doing that? Well, a one we’re trying to push out FEMA integration teams. Uh, the goal was to put 12 people in our 12 teams in place by the end of the year, but I’m happy to say that we have 15 teams out there. We also put a new tribal 15 to serve region 10, uh, out there. So we’re trying to continue to push our staff out into the field to become part of the daily conversation and that’s going to continue to push forward.

Brock Long:        You’re also going to see us unveil a prevent contract toolkit for state and local governments. The best way that you know, to bolster capability is through the private use of the private sector, but we need to fine tune what communities should ask for, what types of contracts should be in place before the disaster so that you are somewhat more self-sufficient than just depending on FEMA, for large scale resources or the state for resources, you know, for example, putting disaster cost recovery, a technical assistance, contracts in place, debris contracts in place, looking at private public vendor managed concepts to do logistics. What are the contracts that you have to do emergency power to get your hands on generator. We want communities proactively putting this in place rather than just sending a request up to the state and ultimately to FEMA to fulfill it during the disaster.

Brock Long:        And that’s the only way you start. The other thing that we’re going to do is unveiled what’s called FEMA pitch, you know, FEMA pitches going to be our interface with the private sector. There’s no entry point for the private sector into FEMA and we get hit with thousands of companies, you know, highly capable companies that do different things. They want to be involved in emergency management and we have no filter to point them in the right direction as to how they can help. So you’re going to see FEMA pitch be out, you know, rolled out as well. The other thing that we’re working on is streamlining our grants management interface. So, we’re, we’re going to roll out FEMA go, uh, which is basically a grants management modernization process of saying if we put out these different grants that it took a different software tool to manage each one.

Brock Long:        What we’re trying to do is put one graphical user interface out there to manage all FEMA grants so that you’re not having to go to separate systems. So we’re really trying to streamline and be better organized on how we work with other people, but also how we process and manage grants. And pushing stuff out. So there’s a lot that’s happening. The DRRA again, the disaster recovery reform act, while it was transformational in great. There’s 64 different provisions that we have to wade through, which is huge. Imagine that we’ve had all these disasters, unprecedented amount of disasters. We packed 38 years into the last 16 months. We have the DRRA that we’re having to quickly come up to speed on and implement a because there are time frames by law that we have to meet certain provisions within that law, but we also want to continue to push forward with the unifying strategic plan strategic plan. But we’re asking that the profession of emergency management adopt the strategic plan. So right now, there is a ton going on. We’re moving at light speed because we have to, based on what we’ve been through,

Todd DeVoe:      I feel for you all at FEMA specifically with all the disasters that occurred of the political changes going on there too. I know back in November you’re in front of Congress and it was a little confrontational, I suppose, on part of one of the congress members there and I think you did a really good job of answering those questions and tell them that realistically if you want the results you need to pay for it and to get more members of FEMA. Can you talk a little bit about your reserve program and how that looks and how that can really help out with FEMA?

Brock Long:        The Disaster Reserve program is Part of our bread and butter, it will always be part of a female’s capability. It’s like our own version of the national guard to the army, to the United States military, so we depend on them to be able to deploy is that you know, the reserve category becomes a jumping off point that leads to more permanent full time position employment with the agency. It becomes our recruiting ground. It becomes a training ground out in the field, see how states and local governments receive federal assistance, but also how to put it to work in a meaningful manner. The reservist Cadre is a great jumping off point, but the laws need to change a little bit on how FEMA reservists can earn credit for their time as a reservist so that they can transition into the other more permanent full-time positions within the agency integration team. So you know, if, if I could wave my wand and change our entire hiring process to an FBI or secret service hiring process model where we do it by cadre classes, they go through all things, Quantico based, emergency management, education, and then we put them out in a FEMA integration team for three to five years.

Brock Long:        Let them learn that job at the grassroots level, working with states and local governments and then allow them to come up to run regional programs at the 10 regional offices and headquarters.

Todd DeVoe:      What’s slowing that down?

Brock Long:        There’s just so many policies in place and the way that the money works, it takes some budget changes. It takes a comprehensive review of what positions are available or reorganizing and reclassifying positions to be able to free up the space. But you know, our new deputy Pet Gaynor, who was the former Rhode Island Emergency Management Agency director, is playing a very instrumental role in drilling down and trying to make big, big ideas like that work as well as fix a lot of the emphasis IT infrastructure issues that we have or HR issues that we’ve had, you know, he is drilling down through and trying to get a handle on that to see if we can’t make it happen.

Todd DeVoe:      If You can talk to every single emergency manager at the same time. What would you tell them today?

Brock Long:        I think the expectations being placed on FEMA are a somewhat greater than the ability to be able to meet those. And uh, one thing that I would like to see in the field of emergency management is a stronger brotherhood, if you will, um, that we are all one team, that we are all trying to strive to save lives and reduce the impact of disasters all over the place. How do we continue to work together to strengthen that partnership each and every day? You know? And at the end of the day, we’ve got to make sure that the nation understand that FEMA is not 911 we are not a first responder, in my opinion, the best way to prepare, respond and recover is when the effort is locally executed, state managed and federally supported, not the other way around. And I want to do everything that I can. And I know that the 21,000 dedicated employees inside FEMA has been truly busting their rear ends to help others really want to do everything that they can to help state and local governments overcome gaps and to bolster their capabilities. But we need a stronger brotherhood in the, uh, in the field of emergency management.

Todd DeVoe:      One last question. What book you’re reading right now?

Brock Long:        I can tell you what, uh, the senior executive service members inside FEMA reading, they are reading Extreme Ownership. You know, we, we’ve had internal crisis cover and deal with in regards to some pretty bad behaviors that were going on inside the, uh, the organization. And it’s forced us to come together as senior executive leaders on what real leadership looks like. And so we’re reading Extreme Ownership collectively. And uh, working on how we lead internally and externally this agency.

Todd DeVoe:      Well Sir, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure having you.

Brock Long:        Thanks Todd. Absolutely. Let’s keep the dialogue going.








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